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In 1976, 20 French judges got here collectively to take part in a blind wine tasting in what has come to be generally known as the Judgement of Paris. On the time, wines from France have been anticipated to win throughout the board, given the nation’s prestigious winemaking. When the outcomes for the Bordeaux class have been revealed, although, an surprising wine from an American area took the prize. The wine got here from the Napa Valley’s Stag’s Leap Cellars.
On this particular episode of the “VinePair Podcast,” host Adam Teeter speaks with Marcus Notaro, winemaker at Stag’s Leap Wine Cellars in Napa Valley. Notaro discusses how he’s helped to proceed Stag Leap’s legacy by means of innovation and arduous work, all whereas striving to uphold the model’s identify as a frontrunner in high-quality New World wine.
Tune in, and study extra about Stag’s Leap at https://www.stagsleapwinecellars.com/.
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Adam Teeter: From VinePair’s New York Metropolis headquarters, I’m Adam Teeter. I’m so pumped as we speak to be bringing you a particular podcast. On as we speak’s podcast, we’re going to be speaking with Marcus Notaro, the winemaker of Stag’s Leap. We’re going to speak all a couple of actually, actually unimaginable occasion that occurred some time in the past now, however one which lots of listeners could also be acquainted with. We’re not solely going to speak about that occasion, however we’re additionally going to speak about Stag’s Leap as an entire and what’s happening in Napa. It’s harvest proper now, so Marcus is giving us a little bit of an replace. With out additional ado, Marcus, thanks for becoming a member of me.
Marcus Notaro: Hey, it’s nice to be right here, Adam.
A: I don’t need to hold folks guessing for too lengthy, so let’s leap proper into it. You’re the winemaker at Stag’s Leap. Whereas I feel many individuals who hear are very acquainted with Stag’s Leap, they will not be acquainted with one of many issues that made Stag’s Leap tremendous well-known within the first place. It’s an occasion that occurred within the ’70s referred to as the Judgment of Paris. I hoped that you could possibly give us the background. For individuals who additionally listened to “Wine 101” at VinePair, there’s an entire episode about the Judgment of Paris you could return to and hearken to if you would like the total breakdown. However, Marcus, are you able to clarify to people who find themselves listening proper now what that occasion was and why it’s so vital within the historical past of the vineyard the place you now make the wine?
M: You wager. Clearly, it’s an vital a part of our historical past. It’s additionally an enormous a part of the historical past of the Napa Valley. This tasting occurred in 1976. Should you transport your self again there into the ’70s within the Napa Valley, it actually wasn’t what you see as we speak, the place it’s form of like this vineyard Disneyland. There have been issues occurring in Napa Valley. It was nonetheless recovering from that nice American concept referred to as Prohibition from the ’20s that worn out the trade. However, issues have been occurring. There have been some new wineries. There was some new vitality and pleasure. To place it in perspective, although, prunes have been extra beneficial than Cabernet Sauvignon at the moment. Our vineyard was based in 1970, and our first classic was produced in 1972. It’s the ’73 that basically put us on the map. Should you go over to Paris, France, there’s a gentleman named Steven Spurrier who, collectively together with his accomplice Patricia Gallagher, had a wine store in Paris. They seen {that a} bunch of People and British of us have been visiting their wine store. They’d been over to Napa Valley, tasted a few of our wines, and had seen a few of this vitality and pleasure. They thought that they might promote these wines to those of us that have been visiting their wine store. At this cut-off date, significantly for high quality wine, there was just one place. There was France. There was Burgundy for Chardonnay and Bordeaux for Cabernet Sauvignon. It was utterly an unknown place. They determined to arrange a blind tasting. They introduced in about 20 French judges. Mr. Spurrier stated, “We need to come to the wine store for a tasting of a few of these wines from the New World, from Napa Valley. As soon as the judges arrived, he thought it could be just a little bit extra enjoyable to throw in a number of the most interesting wines of Burgundy and Bordeaux and do the tasting blind. The judges all agreed. First, they tasted by means of the Burgundys and tasted all of them blind. When the outcomes have been revealed, it was the 1973 Chateau Montelena Chardonnay that had received within the Burgundy class. After they went to the Bordeaux class, it was the Stag’s Leap Wine Cellars 1973 S.L.V. — Stag’s Leap Winery — Cabernet Sauvignon that had received.
A: Wow.
M: Mr. Spurrier had invited a bunch of media to cowl this occasion, and principally, no one confirmed. On the final minute, he made a name over to Time Journal, who despatched a person named George Taber over to cowl this occasion. Mr. Taber knew what the wines have been. He knew about all of the background stuff happening. He wrote this little article referred to as “The Judgment of Paris” that appeared on, like, web page 56 of Time Journal. It was that little article that bought picked up by information organizations around the globe as this nice American victory over what the French have been most identified for. It was nearly a “going viral” kind of second for the ’70s, to place it in perspective. For vintners and growers right here within the Napa Valley, it actually validated what they thought. We thought that we may produce world-class wines right here, and the outcomes of the Paris tasting positively present that the Napa Valley is a particular place, and it’s able to producing world-class Chardonnay and world-class Cabernet Sauvignon.
A: So, what did that do for Stag’s Leap particularly? Clearly it put Napa on the map. Are you able to have a look at the trajectory of the vineyard now and say, “Man, it was a rocket ship”? I really feel like nearly anybody who begins to get into wine learns the identify Stag’s Leap. You’re one of many first growths of the U.S., to be very sincere. I feel that’s particularly reasonable to say. You’re one of the well-known wineries within the nation. What did that do to the corporate? How did everybody react to that? How do you strategy that as we speak in your winemaking, understanding that you’re now one in every of these wineries that individuals take into consideration and say, “Man, this was the vineyard that put us on the map”?
M: Bear in mind, this occasion was a really harmless occasion. As soon as the outcomes have been revealed, they made a cellphone name over to Warren Winiarski’s spouse, Barbara Winiarski. Warren was on enterprise on the time. When she was informed that that they had received a tasting in Paris, her response was, “Oh, that’s very good.” She hung up the cellphone after which referred to as Warren, who was on enterprise again in Chicago. She stated, “Warren, we simply received this tasting in Paris.” His response was, “Oh, that’s very good.” He hung up the cellphone and it wasn’t till just a few days later when he really noticed what the opposite wines have been within the tasting that that they had crushed. That was when he realized the magnitude of this occasion. He really tried to purchase again all the 1973 S.L.V., simply figuring out the sheer ramifications of this occasion. Definitely, to have one in every of your first vintages to have such a top quality assertion is big. That actually is what the vineyard has been about after the Paris wine tasting. What’s attention-grabbing is that everyone needed to work at Stag’s Leap Wine Cellars. Everyone needed to know what the key was. What was it that Warren was doing the place he was capable of produce this wine that beat a number of the greatest wines on this planet? The truth is that the place right here is so particular. Whether or not it’s S.L.V., Stag’s Leap Winery, the FAY Winery — which is correct subsequent door the place we additionally produce an property wine — our space right here in Stag’s Leap produces fantastic wines which have unimaginable potential for ageability. They’ve an actual persona. That’s actually what Stag’s Leap Wine Cellars has at all times been about. We produce not solely top-quality wines, however wines which are actually expressive of our space and the person personalities of the vineyards.
A: That’s wonderful. So, when did you come to Stag’s Leap?
M: My first classic, begin to end, was in 2013.
A: OK. Whenever you got here, did you perceive, on the time, the gravitas of the place and the significance of it in American wine historical past?
M: Oh, for positive. My first journey to the Napa Valley was after I was proper on the finish of finding out in faculty. I fell in love with wine in class. This vineyard was one of many first wineries that I ever visited as a younger wine connoisseur. So, for positive. The vineyard has such a pedigree. Because the winemaker as we speak, it’s fairly superior once we’re touring round and doing winemaker dinners. Everyone’s bought a narrative of a time that they visited, or they’ve a classic of their cellar that they’re saving for an important day. To make the wines right here as we speak may be very humbling, but it surely’s additionally an actual honor.
A: Talking of the wine particularly, loads on this planet has modified since 1976. Napa has modified. How have the wines at Stag’s Leap modified? If somebody have been to drink a bottle of the present classic of Stag’s Leap, how a lot of what was occurring in 1976 may they nonetheless discover in that bottle? How a lot of what was occurring in 1976 has knowledgeable what’s inside that bottle? May you’re taking the listeners by means of what defines a Stag’s Leap wine?
M: The wines come from the world, and the Stag’s Leap district as an entire is a really small sub-appellation. We’re about 5 miles north of Napa on the Silverado Path. When the primary Cabernet was planted right here in 1961 by a person named Nathan Fay, at the moment, our space was really considered too chilly for Cabernet Sauvignon or pink varieties, for that matter. You realize, the town of Yountville and north was for pink grapes. South of Yountville was for white grapes. The way in which the climate works right here is that, on a typical summer season day, we get up and the valley is filled with fog or low clouds which burn off from the north — up in Calistoga — to the south, again out into our air conditioner, being San Pablo Bay. Then, it heats up. Within the early afternoon, the ocean breezes flip again on, developing San Pablo Bay from the south, funneling up by means of the Napa Valley to the north. Relying on the place you might be north to south, you’re going to have totally different ranges of fog or clouds and totally different instances as to when that air conditioner comes again on. That’s why, again within the ’60s, it was considered too chilly. Fortunately, Mr. Fay took an opportunity and planted Cabernet Sauvignon right here anyway. Later, once we have been capable of do some actual measurements, we confirmed that our space is just a little bowl. We’re surrounded by these rocky outcroppings referred to as the Stag’s Leap Palisades. These have been named after a very massive rock formation proper above the vineyard. Again when the native Wappo tribe was dwelling and looking within the valley, they used to chase the deer up into these rocks. There’s a legend {that a} significantly massive stag made it to 1 a part of this V minimize and leapt this unimaginable distance to the opposite aspect in an effort to escape. That’s how our space then has been traditionally generally known as Stag’s Leap. These Palisades radiate the warmth. As soon as the solar does come out right here, temperatures in Stag’s Leap warmth proper up. It will get pretty heat, however due to our southerly location, the ocean breezes hit us round 3:30 to 4:30 p.m. within the afternoon. That cools us again off. The fog does sit right here. It lingers till round 9 a.m. We have now these good, heat afternoons and that heat is what Cabernet Sauvignon must get out these good ripe flavors, complexities, and ripe tannins. However, that prolonged cooling interval actually preserves lots of the pure acidity. I feel, mixed, these give our wines what I name “mushy energy.” They’re wines which are splendidly advanced. They’re wealthy wines, however they don’t are usually heavy or excessive. I discover that fashion in our neighbor’s wines as properly. That might be what I might name the Stag’s Leap fashion.
A: That is smart. They’re highly effective, however they’ve some acidity. They’re approachable. That’s actually attention-grabbing. I by no means actually thought of that by way of the outline of the fashion of that total district. It’s actually attention-grabbing.
M: You wager. It’s very cool to be at a vineyard that has 50 years of historical past and a wine library the place we now have a number of the historic vintages. As the present winemaker, I feel it’s actually vital for me to know historical past, how the wines have developed, and the person personalities of our vineyards. So S.L.V., Stag’s Leap Winery and our first winery, for instance, to style the wines from the ’70s, ’80s, ’90s, and as we speak, is unimaginable. Positive, each classic is just a little bit totally different. What I discover within the wine is that this signature persona that, to me, is S.L.V.. It’s this dusty cocoa powder, it has graphite, this darkish fruit character, this violet character. It’s a richer wine. It’s not excessive, as I stated, but it surely has a spine. It has a fantastic construction. You see that within the older wines. That’s what I attempt to get out of the grapes in as we speak’s wines. Issues have modified by means of historical past. Plenty of the vineyards themselves, right here within the Napa Valley, wanted to be replanted within the mid-’80s and early ’90s, because of phylloxera.
A: That factor.
M: Yeah, that factor. So, the vineyards are totally different. They’re totally different rootstocks for probably the most half. Completely different spacings, totally different clones. Each time you replant otherwise you do one thing, you need to make it higher, proper? You’re taking from what you’ve discovered, and when you’ve gotten a replanting, you’re taking with what’s labored and then you definitely attempt to make it higher and attempt to make the winery higher. The identical factor goes with winemaking. Can we make wines as we speak the identical as they have been made within the ’70s? No. We have now the identical objective, which is to make the best-quality wine we will. That’s expressive and brings out these personalities that I see in these vineyards. For positive, although, gear is totally different, winemaking strategies are totally different, barrel growing older is totally different. It’s all always evolving. You may’t, as a winemaker or as a viticulturist, sit again and do the identical factor each time. Our objective is to make one of the best wines we will for the classic. Each classic is totally different. We don’t essentially do the identical factor yearly, as properly. Warren Winiarski, our founder, remains to be a grower for us. He grows Chardonnay and Cabernet Sauvignon, and he lives on the property. It was actually nice to see his curiosity and pleasure after I would convey one thing new. When this vineyard was based, this place was that. This was one thing new. This was the innovator. This was the brand new factor in Napa Valley. It’s OK to innovate. It’s OK to attempt new issues, so long as I’m respecting the characters and the qualities of the vineyards and staying targeted on producing the very best quality wine I can.
A: That’s wonderful. What number of wines does Stag’s Leap produce?
M: What you’ll see out within the market, is that we now have our three property wines. We have now a single-vineyard from S.L.V., a single-vineyard from the FAY Vineyard, and our prime wine, which is a mix of one of the best of one of the best of the 2. It’s referred to as Cask 23. We even have three Napa Valley wines. We make a Sauvignon Blanc that we name Aveta. We make a Napa Valley Chardonnay, which we name Karia. Our hottest wine is our Napa Valley Cabernet Sauvignon, which we name Artemis. These are the six wines that you simply’ll see out within the market. Right here on the vineyard, we now have a really lively wine membership that I produce another wines for, as properly.
A: Some particular wines you could solely get for those who really be part of.
M: Precisely. Or, once you cease by the vineyard right here.
A: Proper, precisely. Clear one factor up for me. You get this query loads. You’re not the one vineyard named Stag’s Leap. That’s one other one, too. Individuals get confused. You each have an apostrophe in your identify, however one is in a single location, one is within the different. Are you able to inform me why that’s? Are you able to inform me what listeners ought to search for to make sure that they’re really shopping for the Stag’s Leap that received the Judgement of Paris, from the vineyard based by Warren Winiarski? How do you make sure that it’s that vineyard and never the opposite Stag’s Leap?
M: Sure. That is very complicated. It’s been complicated for 50 years. Principally, each wineries have been based similtaneously grape wine-producing wineries. You really must get a bond in an effort to do that. Each tried to seize this identify of Stag’s Leap. The opposite vineyard — utterly totally different possession, utterly totally different founding — was extra enthusiastic about Petite Sirah than Cabernet Sauvignon. In good American trend, this, after all, resulted in a couple of 10-year, $1 million authorized battle. The answer was that nobody vineyard can lay declare to a spot like that. Winiarski’s vineyard is Stag’s Leap Wine Cellars, with the apostrophe earlier than the “s” and the opposite one is Stags’ Leap Vineyard, with the apostrophe after the “s.” This, after all, has resulted in one other 40 years of confusion, significantly for customers, however they’ve utterly totally different possession and utterly totally different wine. On the labels, our deer is standing nonetheless and their deer is leaping away. They make excellent Petite Sirah. If I had a nickel for each time I’ve been informed how good our Petite Sirah is —
A: That’s wonderful.
M: Their winemaker is definitely a good friend. Additionally they get informed on a regular basis about Cask 23 and Artemis. Frankly, that’s the rationale why, on our Napa Valley wines, they do have a reputation like Artemis, Karia, or Aveta. That’s in order that, once you’re at a restaurant and have a wine checklist, the restaurateur could solely have a lot area to write down out Stag’s Leap Wine Cellars Napa Valley Cabernet Sauvignon. In the event that they put even simply Stag’s Leap Wine Cellars Artemis, folks will actually acknowledge that. It’s very recognizable for the customers and helps to maintain you straight and be sure you’re getting it from the proper one.
A: Are the three Napa wines the wines that individuals will most simply discover out available in the market?
M: Sure. Aveta, Karia, and Artemis.
A: OK, cool. The S.L.V., Cask 23, you’ll find these at, most likely, the finer eating places and higher-end retailers.
M: Precisely.
A: Very cool. Nicely, Marcus, it has been actually attention-grabbing to speak to you about Stag’s Leap, the Judgment of Paris, the wine as an entire, and the area. To be sincere with you, I really didn’t know that it was named for a stag leaping over a rock outcropping. I simply at all times thought it was named as a result of there have been a lot of stags that had been seen leaping within the space. That’s a super-cool story. I actually respect you sharing.
M: Nicely, I’ll inform you what. The descendants of that deer that bought away have a voracious urge for food for Cabernet Sauvignon. As harvest is happening right here proper now, I’m always chasing these items out.
A: Oh, pretty. I don’t need to take up a lot of your time as a result of I’m positive you might be tremendous busy with harvest. So, I need to thanks a lot for taking the time to talk with me as we speak and speak to us extra about Stag’s Leap and what’s happening in Napa. I respect it and I’ll speak to you quickly.
M: My pleasure, Adam. Superior being right here.
Thanks a lot for listening to the “VinePair Podcast.” Should you love this present as a lot as we love making it, please go away us a ranking or evaluate on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever it’s you get your podcasts. It actually helps everybody else uncover the present.
Now for the credit. VinePair is produced and recorded in New York Metropolis and Seattle, Washington, on my own and Zach Geballe, who does all of the enhancing and likes to get the credit score. Additionally, I might love to present a particular shout-out to my VinePair co-founder, Josh Malin, for serving to make all of this potential, and in addition to Keith Beavers, VinePair’s tastings director, who’s moreover a producer on the present. I additionally need to, after all, thank each different member of the VinePair crew, who’re instrumental in all the concepts that go into making the present each week. Thanks a lot for listening, and we’ll see you once more.
Ed. notice: This episode has been edited for size and readability.
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